Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

At least Sweden is struggling a lot with scaling its power production, to the point where it's a problem for existing and new industries and causing some rather extreme price volatility.

A lot of the green energy is from hydro dams and you can't really add new rivers to the geography to support additional industry.

 help



With hindsight, it wasn't a very good idea to shut down 6 of 12 nuclear reactors. Still much better than the situation in Germany, but that's a very low bar.

It will be interesting to see how the Rolls-Royce SMR project works out. Since it appears to be impossible to build anything cheaply in the UK, this will be the real test.


> Since it appears to be impossible to build anything cheaply in the UK

The solution is to build nuclear power stations on ships in China, then sail them to the UK and plug them in.

If power prices elsewhere in the world become advantageous, sail them elsewhere and plug them in there.

You still have the interconnection costs, but seaside places sometimes have high voltage connections for existing or historic power plants (who themselves are water cooled)


A Chinese nuke on the coast of Britain might be hard politically. Even if it's benign, you can bet the US will run an expensive campaign to discredit it in public opinion.

There's a special line crossed by a 100% Chinese owned floating nuclear power plant, as opposed to a 24% Chinese owned fixed in place nuclear power plant like the Hinkley Point C nuclear power station?

You wouldn't even need it to be Chinese owned. Just Chinese built and indemnified. Hell, I'd take a guarantee from a consortium of Chinese SoE banks over the U.S. government today. (I'm American.)

Even if you own it, you'll need the Chinese to run it for you and provide you with spares.

Sort of like needing the US for F-35 parts? Given the choice between being dependent on China or the US, I know which one I'd choose - China is running a business, the US is running... God knows what it is they think they're running, but it's not something you want to get tied up in.

> you can bet the US will run an expensive campaign to discredit it in public opinion.

The US has effective run this on itself for the past few years. The Chinese look fairly benign in comparison.


It doesn't come preloaded with fuel.

Not really. If something bad happens you can always just drag the boat back to China and say here you deal with this lol

Sweden main issue is that there is no transmission capacity between North and South, like now prices are 2x at south.

The government that keeps rejecting offshore wind for bogus security reasons is probably a bigger factor.

Those wind farms would have connected into the zones with the highest prices.

They've rejected an amount that would generate more than the entire grid usage. Or way more than double what the cheap zones generate from their 2/3rds hydro and 1/3rd wind.


On one hand Swedish government rejected applications for 11 offshore wind sites on national security grounds, on the other hand, wind investors state that they will not do wind investments in Sweden without subsidies.

" risk-sharing mechanism will be required, for example through two-sided Contracts for Difference and state-backed credit guarantees that reduce investment risk and unlock project financing.”

https://www.renews.biz/offshore-wind/skyborn-calls-for-swedi...


That's due to shutting down reactors in the south. Turns out "transmission capacity" is more complicated than having fat wires...

Shutting down => Not building new ones. All decommissioned reactors would have reached EOL by 2025 anyhow.

Swedens main issue is a political class disconnected from reality.

That is a global issue.

Pretty much every reply to the parent has now given a very different reason for why the problem exists. Anyone else want to give it a try? Bonus points for mentioning meatballs and/or lutfisk.

There is plenty transmission capacity, the issue is EU regulations not allowing Sweden to keep prices low in the south.

How is that a thing when the entirety of Finland is a single pricing zone?

There's a simpler solution, stop letting the AI turn everything into paperclips and there won't be a shortage of paperclip material.

Just change AI for Corporations and I agree.

Yeah please send some electricity to Germany it's so horrible here :'(

You certainly could use an alternative to gas heating during the upcoming winter. It doesn't look like Qatar will be able to deliver.

Still can’t believe the german voters were successfully convinced that replacing german nuclear with russian fossil was a green choice

Power generation is 25% higher with 6 than with 12 reactors. Plenty of scaremongering around volatility, though. Consumers don't realize that one-hour price spikes are completely irrelevant since they pay monthly (or even quarterly) AVERAGE prices. Max, min, mean, and standard deviation. People don't know statistics and are so easy to fool by demagogues.

Large customers buy directly on electricity markets at hourly market price, or have direct power purchase agreements with power suppliers.

Most small customers are paying using average prices, but these average prices are calculated from the costs of power suppliers and these are affected by hourly market prices. So when many small customers consume use lot of electricity during hours with high hourly market price, the average price for small customers goes up.

Best solution is instalation of smart meters so that small customers pay according to hourly market price.


It was a great idea*

*if you’re a seller of fossil fuels


It’s a great idea if you’re in reach of Russian drones

With Russia‘s aggression and the rise of drone wars it’s a pretty good idea to get rod of such big single point of failures like nuclear power plants.

And climate change also isn’t in favor of nuclear power plants that need external water sources for cooling


You didn’t need “hindsight”. It was painfully stupid at the time.

I’m starting to think that perhaps the government here in .se should support new reactors. It won’t be cheap though…


>you can't really add new rivers to the geography to support additional industry.

yes, you can - with all those fiords surrounded by mountains you can use excess wind/solar (your own as well as German, etc.) and pump water up a dammed fiord to generate the electricity later when no cheap excess available.


Well, we don't have fjords or mountains in Sweden, otherwise a great plan.

There are both mountains [0] and fjords [1] in Sweden, but not of the Norwegian kind they were probably picturing.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Mountains

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullmarn


Build a dam in the fjord and pump the water out from it with excess electricity! Profit

This assumes that there is excess power at some point. This will soon become unrealistic: we either need power for data centers during the day or charging vehicles during the night.

The solution works only to keep a steady production of electricity, but if the demand would require full output all the time then these "mechanical batteries" don't help.


Is that really it? I thought Sweden was a net exporter and that the price volatility was much more related to the eu pricing and distribution?

the north exports, the south imports.

If you run datacenters in the north its substantially cheaper.

Places like Malmö have had issues with power costs, even though there's a lot of generation... because that generation happens in the north.


But isn’t that also because of not investing in the grid more than a production problem? Not cheap to upgrade the grid of course but having good transmission capacity makes a more stable and efficient energy system.

Not saying we shouldn’t produce more electricity. But from what I have understood it’s mainly about other factors than production.


    > Sweden is struggling a lot with scaling its power production, to the point where it's a problem for existing and new industries
Some light research shows that Sweden has annual electricity exports of about 30 TWh (equiv to 2x EPR nuclear reactors). Sweden has plenty of excess power. Also, Sweden is part of Nord Pool. Its neighbor, Norway, also has massive annual electricity exports of about 30 TWh. Again: Plenty of excess capacity to supply Sweden. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

Excess power is unevenly distributed both geographically and temporally.

In the SE1 region, which is the least populated and probably best candidate for a data center, there was a 400% price drop between February and March this year, then up 100% in May, then down 50% in July. Between summer 2025 and winter 2026, the same region saw a price hike of nearly 1000%.

https://data.nordpoolgroup.com/auction/day-ahead/prices?deli... 12&currency=EUR&aggregation=MonthlyAggregate&deliveryAreas=SE1,SE2

https://data.nordpoolgroup.com/auction/day-ahead/prices?deli...

I guess if you want a data center that only operates some months of the year that's fine.


The bottleneck is the grid, not the production centers. Volatility is not more extreme in Sweden than other connected (Nord Pool) countries. Companies lament the lack of grid connectivity all the time. Then they get the offer "Pay for the cost of grid expansion to connect you" and they are not so interested anymore.



Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: